Study of Lyft rideshare data confirms minorities get more tickets
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So are you going to stop your "analysis" at race?
Or are you going to dig deeper and try to understand things outside of race?
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For me, 'animus' conveys nothing other than the dictionary meaning; an unspecified dislike or distaste.
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Huh? I’ll take that as you misreading me.
If you want to apply my post to DWB, it says people that assume DWB is the fault of black drivers are racist AF.
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That was a really good rebuttal. Bravo.
Many people ..see what they want to see. Probably just ignores infractions from those who look like himself, because 'it almost never happens' or 'simply not as much/as bad'. It's always "them".
As an older non-white, I have had my fill of sweet murican branded racism, and I'm prepared to see myself out. Going into my senior years, i can't fathom spending the next 30 years discussing & living through the same oppressive tactics from american whites. It taxes the soul to the core, and I personally have given up on this country. There is no hope for them/here. I'm really to starting to revile 'them', and that is a huge alarm bell - so i'm taking the hint. Just PLEASE stop being racist and fucking with non-white lives? PLEASE!!??? Argh.
And to all a good night. (not for racists, they can burn to holy hell).
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Not sure what your point is. The numbers are the numbers. This whole article concerns a correlation with race. What new considerations do you wish to present, regarding my point or the author's?
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A lot of comments on here are misinterpreting the results of this study. It's not saying that police stopped minorities more frequently, that is a controlled factor here. They are saying that when people get stopped, black and minorities more frequently receive tickets, and with higher severity, even controlling for the amounts they are speeding when they are stopped.
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You haven't attempted to consider that homicide numbers are what they are aside from being due to race only.
That is the epitome of being racist.
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I just took your words at face value.
If you think I was wrong, then you need to consider how your words may be interpreted other than how you intended them.
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In 2005, the United States Supreme Court ruled that police departments have no affirmative obligation to enforce laws
and can do so at their discretion - even when that decision puts citizens at risk.
https://hulr.org/fall-2020/castle-rock-v-gonzales-and-the-legal-obligations-of-police
be warned the facts of the case are pretty harrowing and infuriating
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The difference is that the research was able to show that both minority and white drivers speed at the exact same rate within this group. This is based on additional data that Lyft collects through its app. Hence, the only meaningful difference between the two groups was their race.
That is pretty good evidence that this is causation and not correlation.
Your statement about homicide does not control for anything at all. It doesn't control for things like education, socioeconomic class, etc. What if educational level or socioeconomic class is what is the predictor of your chances of committing homicide and not race? Because of racial discrimination and bias at the generational level, black people for instance are more likely to both be poor and have fewer educational opportunities than white people.
That is even before you get into the fact that we know historically police have rounded up innocent black people to find their "culprit" for the crime and close the case.
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That doesn't show more accidents for African Americans. It shows more accident fatalities. Of course the number of accidents is a factor in that, but also the kind of car you are driving. If you happen to be poor, you are more likely to be in a smaller car and/or in an older car with fewer safety features. And therefore at more risk of becoming a fatality if you do end up in an accident. I did a quick search but couldn't find any numbers on accident rates which are what you are making a claim about.
Another confounding issue -- which would also affect accident rates -- is that African Americans are more likely to live in urban vs rural areas. And that's reflected in table 5 of your link. 74% of the traffic fatalities among African Americans were in urban areas, 70% for Hispanics, 51% for Whites. So they are also driving disproportionately in different environments.
All of this means it's not really a good apples-to-apples comparison. The study here is much more likely to be looking at drivers doing similar kinds of driving. And probably even reduces the bias regarding income, since I don't think a lot of rich people are driving Lyft (and possibly Lyft also blocks drivers with the worst cars from participating? uncertain).
The stop light camera data is also a better apples-to-apples comparison.
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report found that between 2000 and 2020, Trump-voting states had 12% higher murder rates than did Biden-voting cities.
Data shows that in 2020, eight of the ten states with the highest murder rates voted for the Republican presidential nominee in every election in this century.
A report published in the New England Journal of Medicine found guns became the leading cause of death for children starting in 2017
REPUBLICANS KILL KIDS
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Yeah, this pretty much confirms what everyone knew was true, but that police denied the fuck out of. I lived somewhere for a few years when black people received nearly an order of magnitude more traffic violations than you'd expect based on the percentage of the population black people made up. (The county had a very small black population.)
The amount of bigotry there was pretty wild and a lot of people didn't exactly spend time covering it up.
The amount of bigotry there was pretty wild and a lot of people didn't exactly spend time covering it up.
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Yes, they both involve racist behavior. I was trying to draw a distinction between two different (to me anyway) behavior cases. But after reading your reply I think I used white privilege incorrectly. White privilege doesn't apply to the cop, it applies to the drivers in the favored class.
I don't immediately know if there's proper terminology to represent the two cases below.
Case 1: negative police actions based on race. This is the classic "racist cop" behavior where disfavored groups are subjected to closer scrutiny. In some situations they may also be subject to unlawful behavior (cited for infractions that they did not do).
Case 2: positive police actions based on race. This is the situation where favored groups are given fewer citations or less severe citations (or both). I think that cops which engage in this behavior might believe they aren't racist (they define racist strictly as case 1) but their behavior is still racist. The remediation would probably be different than case 1, too.
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They may have standards, but who is enforcing them? My ride sharing usage has been pretty minimal, but I do try to use Lyft over Uber. And I’ve been in vehicles ranging from basically off the showroom floor to clunkers destined for the junkyard in the near future. One I used last year had a cracked windshield and messy interior. Against my normal impulses to give a ”honest” review, I rated him well and tipped because I’ve been there and recognize that he’s making the best of his situation, whatever it may be. But your presumption about vehicle standards may be there on paper, but not enforced in practice. At least not unless they get complaints about a particular driver citing something like that.
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I haven't argued that homicide rate is genetically determined. That argument is entirely within your mind.
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I specifically distinguished between homicide and traffic crime; I argued that factors affecting both occurence and policing are probably not entirely correlated.
As for your last paragraph: outside of war and anarchy, homicides are carefully investigated. Uniquely among crimes, the statistics cannot in most circumstances be far wrong.
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Lets read the receipts together
So if "certain minorities" isn't racist language, then what is it?
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If this turns out to be the case, what solutions do you think might help to alleviate the problem?
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- its what you ‘want’ them to mean that’s so deplorable
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I'm just saying analyse the numbers, rather than replicate a stupid headline. The numbers will speak.
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Yes, except this study using the Lyft data controlled for all the factors. This specific data set is useful primarily because it can eliminate all the factors besides race playing an effect.
Your mention of homicide statistics don't control for other factors.
Racism can just as easily affect homicide investigations. DNA evidence has played a big role in showing us just how well crimes like homicide are investigated, which is to say relatively poorly and often with misconduct.
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I am listening to myself not making racist remarks, and when not called out on them, not make excuses for not making them.
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Fine, I've edited the original post for clarity.
I still think you're just spinning around, as even a passing glance at my posting makes my position VERY clear.
But whatever. Have a good day.
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Not exactly. "When people get stopped, black and minorities more frequently receive tickets" is something that would require you to know how many of them got stopped in total. That's not in the data. The data only shows how many tickets were given. We don't know how many drivers (of any race) were stopped but not ticketed.
However it is true that black and minority drivers got tickets of higher severity. It seems very likely that police officers tending to ticket minorities more severely also correlates to officers tending to let more non-minority drivers go without a ticket. There just isn't data on that either way in this study.
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I don’t dispute the contention of this study, however I don’t understand how they pre-processed their data. If you read the the original paper’s supplement, the authors say:
“Supplementary Appendix Table S8 presents estimated effects of minority status on citations and fines by sets of controls. Column 1 presents estimates without any controls. Column 2 adds the fixed effects for different levels of exceeding the speed limit. Column 3 adds fixed effects for geohashes in the state of Florida and fixed effects for aspects of the road. Column 4 adds fixed effects for calendar time and the task a Lyft driver is completing (namely, waiting to be paired with a passenger, picking up a passenger, or providing a trip). Column 5 adds controls for features of the driver and their car. Across these specifications, we see that without controls minority drivers appear to be cited less frequently than white drivers. Across the outcomes, adding controls for driving speeds magnifies the effect in column 1, however adding the location and road controls in column 3 flips the sign to indicate minorities are more likely to be cited and pay larger fines for speeding. The time controls added in column 4 have a negligible effect on the estimates, whereas the driver and car controls in column 5 shrink the magnitude of the estimates slightly.”
So basically there was no race effect in the speeding data until the authors corrected for the following:
“We account for geography with fixed effects for whether a driver was operating in a given geohash of approximately 1,200 by 600 meters. These controls allow us to account for effects driven by over-policing in cer-
tain locations. We also account for road features with measures of lane count and log average annual daily traffic.”
Apparently this is some type of correction for driving on roads where speeder’s are more likely to be ticketed- I wish this specific correction was explained because otherwise the paper’s data doesn’t support its conclusion.
“Supplementary Appendix Table S8 presents estimated effects of minority status on citations and fines by sets of controls. Column 1 presents estimates without any controls. Column 2 adds the fixed effects for different levels of exceeding the speed limit. Column 3 adds fixed effects for geohashes in the state of Florida and fixed effects for aspects of the road. Column 4 adds fixed effects for calendar time and the task a Lyft driver is completing (namely, waiting to be paired with a passenger, picking up a passenger, or providing a trip). Column 5 adds controls for features of the driver and their car. Across these specifications, we see that without controls minority drivers appear to be cited less frequently than white drivers. Across the outcomes, adding controls for driving speeds magnifies the effect in column 1, however adding the location and road controls in column 3 flips the sign to indicate minorities are more likely to be cited and pay larger fines for speeding. The time controls added in column 4 have a negligible effect on the estimates, whereas the driver and car controls in column 5 shrink the magnitude of the estimates slightly.”
So basically there was no race effect in the speeding data until the authors corrected for the following:
“We account for geography with fixed effects for whether a driver was operating in a given geohash of approximately 1,200 by 600 meters. These controls allow us to account for effects driven by over-policing in cer-
tain locations. We also account for road features with measures of lane count and log average annual daily traffic.”
Apparently this is some type of correction for driving on roads where speeder’s are more likely to be ticketed- I wish this specific correction was explained because otherwise the paper’s data doesn’t support its conclusion.
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Don't you know? It's totally unfair to use context to interpret people's words- you're only allowed to judge exactly what they've said. And they work so hard to not directly say the 'racist' words! It's not fair for you to be able to see the obvious racism in their comment!
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It depends on where you live. Here in Phoenix people drive 80 mph on the freeways with total impunity. You really have to be egregiously speeding here to get pulled over just for that. I was in Washington a few weeks ago and it was totally different, driving from Olympia to Seattle I got ticketed for speeding for driving like I normally do at home. The officer did cut me a break and wrote the ticket out for less speed than he actually clocked me at (white privilege.)
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Were you keeping pace with the traffic in the PNW? or were you outpacing it? I drive a usual 10% over the speed limit on freeways in the SW, and keep pace with traffic. Whenever I see someone pulled over I have to ask myself "How fast was that person actually doing to get pulled over in a spot where 10% over the limit is normal?"
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Um, clearly this just means that the FBI is a woke biased liberal stronghold.
^Actually something my uncle claimed when I brought up that Antifa has not been found to be a coherent organization, while white supremacists definitely are, and that domestic terrorism from such groups has been marked as the primary threat to national security for many years.
Of course, anyone connected to reality would know that the FBI is infamously an extremely conservative, right-leaning organization. It's just that when you look at the facts, you're often brought to 'left' conclusions.
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"It's not about race!"
Immediately brings things to race at the first opportunity.
Suuuuuure, buddy.
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